A series of readings purported to have provided the information that was later used to find the remains of the two missing Idaho children, Tylee Ryan and JJ Vallow was described throughout my readings.
Later, after the remains of the children were located by the FBI, and their teams of law enforcement through various agencies, a relative of the victims, Kay Woodcocks daughter Kresha, asked for a reading specifically related to Charles Vallow and his death. During that reading, Charles Vallow insisted on first describing some weapons which were not yet confiscated. True Crime Sleuth, Lauren, from “Sweetie Pie Lo True Crime” called Detective Ronnie Ball to apprise him of the tools. A warrant was issued and LE went back to the crime scene the same day and retrieved that tool which turned out to be instrumental in solidifying the case against Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow.
Here is just one reading that includes information about the tool
Regardless of my hard work, Kay Woodcock, has refused to pay the $20,000 reward, even though she was kept apprised of information throughout the four months I was working on the case.
Here is a free downloadable essay I wrote about how my work on the missing children case of Tylee Ryan and JJ Vallow proves the afterlife:
Here is the court transcript:
Trial Testimony Lori Vallow – Forensic Tool Examiner – FBI forensic tool examiner Douglas Halepaska testifies as Lori Vallow Daybell trial
0:00
all right now that the witness is sworn I just have a couple of questions um have you reviewed or seen or heard or
0:07
read any of the trial testimony that’s taken place in this case since it started no sir I have not okay thank you
0:13
for that I’ll just advise you then please as you are testifying make verbal
0:20
responses to any questions you’re answering and try to avoid talking at the same time as any attorney
0:25
questioning you so we can keep the record clear with those ground rules in mind Miss Rawlings if you’d like to inquire on
0:32
Direct you may thank your honor good morning good morning can you please
0:38
state your name and spell it for the record uh Douglas jalapaska that’s d-o-u-g-l-a-s-h-a-l-e-p-a-s-k-a
0:50
thank you where are you currently employed I’m currently employed with the Federal Bureau of Investigation laboratory
0:57
Division I work at Quantico Virginia as a
1:03
forensic examer and the pharmaceutical marks unit
1:09
forensic examiner in the firearms and toolmarks unit
1:15
sure um can you explain what training and
1:22
expertise you have to work as a physical scientist at the firearms and Tool marks unit
1:28
okay the training is essentially on the job training uh for me that training
1:33
lasted a little over two and a half years when I first arrived in the unit I received a
1:40
big lengthy an extensive training syllabus which outlined a curriculum of study within the discipline of tool
1:47
Market identification during that time I had the opportunity to enter the direct supervision of a
1:55
senior qualified tool Market Examiner
2:01
throughout that training period I was able to assist this qualified examiner with
2:07
actual uh training samples as well as actual evidence samples as well I was able to tour several Firearms
2:15
ammunition and Tool manufacturing facilities which is critical in the training period because it allows for uh
2:22
us to actually firsthand see the examination or the manufacturer of the
2:28
the tools themselves uh toward the end of the training I was required to take and pass a series of a
2:34
written competency and uh oral examinations and once I passed my
2:41
final oral examination I didn’t actually qualified it’s a pharmaceutical marks examer within the FBA Laboratory
2:48
thank you FBI laboratory is
2:54
we are getting a little feedback on that microphone but we’re not able to make adjustments
2:59
Unfortunately today we’ve had a little bit of a technical issue and it’s supposed to be improved hopefully over
3:05
the noon hour but we’re sort of limited on ability to control that so can I try to not use the microphone and
3:12
just project my voice would that be um we still need the microphone to pick up the recording for the record so
3:18
um maybe you can just actually push the mic a little away from you potentially
3:25
that was a pretty extensive answer do you have any other noteworthy information from your CV
3:33
that I’m a member of the uh Association Farms to Mark examiner that’s a
3:40
organization in which a Professional Organization I’m a member of they provide
3:46
training there’s a yearly conference and there’s a a journal with uh topics that arrive
3:54
within the discipline so that as well thank you
3:59
um you have been employed at the lab in Quantico for over 13 years now that’s correct okay and how is evidence
4:07
submitted to the lab at Quantico the evidence arrives typically FedEx but
4:14
there are some hand-delivered evidence and once the evidence is received what happens next
4:20
the evidence arrives in the evidence management unit acronyms emu
4:27
they just assure that when the evidence arrives that is the packaging arrived in is intact
4:35
they itemize the evidence they enter the data from the evidence
4:40
into a software system called forensic advantage in it they actually issue a unique
4:47
identifier for the case as well as unique identifiers for each piece of evidence
4:53
most importantly they put together an Evidence plan so there’s different
4:59
disciplines within the the laboratory system so they basically put together an
5:04
examination plan and they also uh deliver the evidence between the
5:10
different units so the different disciplines once they’re completed their examinations they would just drop off
5:17
that evidence in a particular evidence storage facility and the evidence
5:22
management Personnel would actually pick it up and deliver it to the next unit so what process do you follow when
5:29
evidence arrives at the Firearms tool marks you know that evidence arrives in a drop-off
5:37
facility access to pickup facility as well for evidence once that arrives either an examiner or
5:44
a technician will pick up that evidence once that’s done if active examinations
5:51
do not start they will actually place that evidence into a storage facility within the unit itself
5:58
do you recall what evidence you checked out of the evidence Locker in reference to this case that would be
6:04
item 16 17 and 19. and what agency did these phones come
6:10
from they came from the Ada County coroner’s office and do you know if there was an
6:17
agency reference number associated with those bones um yes there was do you remember what that was I believe
6:24
it was 2006 1-1 hyphen six one but if
6:29
you don’t mind would I check my notes uh your honor may he refreshes recollection to verify that the number
6:36
is correct well he can be provided as notes and then we’ll see if the defense has any objection to that I believe he has a
6:42
closed copy of a folder up there that uh he can reference if that’s okay can I take a look at it have you seen it I
6:48
have not okay yeah the defense is entitled to review that first thank you
7:57
foreign
8:21
thank you all right Mr Thomas there’s been a request that the witness be allowed to
8:27
refresh the recollection using the notes is there any objection from the defense no objection all right as you do that uh
8:34
Mr halopaska please indicate if you are referring to your notes and don’t just read off them and close the file once
8:42
you’ve refreshed your recollection so you’re testifying from memory not from the notes themselves yes sir thank you
8:50
I’m just uh on the first page of my laboratory report page one of four there’s are you
8:56
reading is he reading from the note oh no I think we just asked yes Mr helicopter
9:02
um I had just asked you what the agency number was and I think you wanted to just verify that your uh recitation was
9:08
correct so if you can just look and then yes it was uh 2006 1-1 hyphen six one
9:13
that’s correct thank you uh now let’s talk about how you review
9:19
the evidence and draft a report can you explain what you do first okay there’s a
9:25
couple of uh terms and definitions I’d like to Define it may take a little while but okay
9:31
um the first thing I want to talk about is is a tool I’m gonna ask a question be
9:37
asked it seems like it was a very broad question and now he’s going to go into a narrative I believe all right I’ll
9:42
sustain that objection if you want to ask a new question Miss Rawlings so my question was what you do first so if you
9:48
could just give the first part of what you do when you’re reviewing evidence and drafting your report and then we can
9:53
go okay the first thing I do is I review the evidence so I removed the
10:01
evidence from the evidence packaging ensuring that the identifiers on that Packaging are
10:08
consistent with those within the forensic Advantage system once that occurs I’m actually going to
10:15
start reviewing that evidence for any kind of tool marks once any kind of toolmarts are
10:22
identified I’m actually going to document that in my notes there’s some worksheets that I add that information
10:28
to either imagery or handwritten um and Mr holopostka I think you
10:34
mentioned um you also used some definitions when you’re crafting your notes what are
10:40
those okay so the first one is a tool so the
10:45
basic definition of a tool is to gain mechanical advantage over some object
10:50
but when the discipline of toolmark identification a tool can be thought of is when two objects come into forceful
10:57
contact with each other and the harder of the two objects is the
11:02
tool and the softer the two two objects the tool mark
11:08
thank you um what do you do next in drafting your report um
11:13
when I’ve drafted my report I’m actually um taken the information from my notes
11:21
uh the notes are used as reference to the report the reports generate in
11:27
forensic advantage of the software system for the laboratory and then I generate the report from those uh from
11:34
those notes and what specific items did you look at for your report
11:39
those would be items of 16 17 and 19.
11:45
did you use something called casting material yes I did can you explain what
11:50
uh item that was and what casting material is I believe that was item 106 so anytime
12:02
material is used from evidence items it becomes secondary evidence casting
12:09
material as a basically a silicone-based compound it’s administered onto a
12:16
surface as a thick liquid once that substance uh dries it drives into a
12:21
rubberized material and it actually picks up uh castings of the the item
12:27
itself the tool marks thank you and um
12:33
did you explain how you used that material in your analysis the casting material yes there was a
12:40
there was a a few items uh
12:45
or uh tool marks on the items that I actually took uh castings of so there
12:52
was I actually took five castings from those evidence items and that’s what
12:57
became item 106 which was the secondary evidence and that is specifically the
13:03
casting material that is correct okay um does your report go through a review
13:09
process yes it does can you explain how that works um
13:14
it first goes through a um a technical review that’s where another uh qualified farms and Toolmart examiner reviews both
13:21
my uh notes as well as my report for technical accuracy once that’s completed
13:28
it goes through an administrative report our administrative review that’s done by
13:33
another individual doesn’t necessarily have to be a qualified to Mark examer
13:39
and they’re just checking for um spelling and grammar accuracy and stuff
13:46
like that and are there any other specific terms that you use when drafting your report
13:51
that we should know about there’s a handful of terms I like to Define okay
13:58
okay uh the first one is a so I talked about a tool within the uh discipline so
14:04
when two objects come in the forceful contact with each other the softer of the two is the tool Mark there’s two
14:11
types of tool marks there’s impressed and striated and a press Mark occurs
14:17
when the force onto an object is a perpendicular so the best way to kind of
14:24
think about that is whenever a you’re at the beach you had a bowling ball you dropped that bowling ball into
14:29
the sand you remove that bowling ball that’s your impression strata marks occur when uh
14:37
both uh force is applied to an object almost perpendicular to the surface and
14:43
it generates striations or um essentially scratch marks those are the
14:49
only type of uh two types of tool marks that occur there’s two other important terms class
14:55
characteristics and individual characteristics okay what are class characteristics okay class characteristics are the general or
15:02
measurable features of a specimen that which indicate a restricted group Source or Source population
15:10
these are design factors and our determined prior to manufacturers so what I’m talking about is tools
15:18
the best analogy I can think of right now is if you had a two types of screwdrivers one being a flathead
15:24
screwdriver if you were to use that flathead screwdriver to make an impression that
15:30
impression would have basically the general shape of a minus sign in mathematics but it would also have other
15:37
features there would be measurable features such as the width of that uh that tool head as well as the
15:45
uh the length of it now when I talk about the screwdriver I’m only concerned with the working surface so basically
15:50
that part of the screwdriver that you’re using to torque that screw that’s the only part I’m concerned with that’s the
15:57
part that is manufactured other class characteristics are the manufacturing processes that occur on
16:02
the working surface of that flathead screwdriver so was that flathead screwdriver made
16:09
was it cast it was it milled was it fractured finishing process is grinding
16:15
B blasting coding those are class characteristics the electronic screwdriver
16:21
a Phillips head a press mark from a Phillips head will look like a plus sign so if I had tool marks
16:28
that had the general impression of minus and plus I have two separate Source populations
16:35
so that is an an easy way to think of class characteristics
16:42
individual characteristics they’re they are the rapid and random
16:49
imperfections that occurred to a tool surface these occur during the manufacturing
16:54
process and they’re incidental to the manufacturing process so the manufacturer does not intend for the
17:00
working surface of these screwdrivers they have these marks on them
17:07
but these marks are what are used to Source identify a tool mark back to a
17:13
particular tool and there’s a an examination process I could walk through looking at class
17:19
characteristics in an individual or is that if what is that process Mr halabaska
17:24
okay so during the first half as I told you earlier I’m focused on documenting
17:30
those class characteristics into my notes so what I’m doing is
17:36
um I’ve documenting those class characteristics into my notes that’s the
17:42
first half of the examination process once that’s done I take all those different Source populations the class
17:49
characteristics and I go to the next level of examination which is the uh
17:55
using the comparison microscope so essentially um
18:00
it’s a microscopic examination of those individual characteristics
18:06
the best way to think of a comparison microscope is essentially a you have two compound microscopes one an
18:13
optical Bridge which allows me to look at two separate samples under the same viewing field
18:19
um under the same magnification so at that time I’m actually looking at patterns of
18:25
similarity between those two samples and that’s what I use the source identify
18:31
a tool mark back to a particular tool that’s it that’s in a nutshell
18:38
essentially the examination process thank you turning your attention to the items you
18:44
examined in your report the first item that you examined was number 16 do you remember what that was
18:50
it was a a bone okay I’m going to hand you um what’s been
18:56
marked as State’s exhibits 180 a through l and I would note for the record that uh
19:04
defense counsel and the court has been provided courtesy copies
19:09
all right
19:17
Mr halepaska there is water in the picture if you need any water thank you
19:46
[Applause]
19:53
thank you
20:11
if I could have if I could have just a second with Council yes
20:16
Mr Thomas if you’d like to why don’t you walk over here we’ll turn on the white noise
20:22
oh I’m sorry we don’t have that available but still if you walk over here it’s better than over there
21:02
thank you
21:09
all right Mr jalapaska will you take a minute and look at each of those pages those images
21:23
okay
21:53
foreign thank you do you recognize those images
21:59
yes I do how do you recognize them um I recognize them based on some
22:06
information that I actually wrote on the bone anytime I wrote any kind of identifier on the bone I would uh write
22:14
my initials as well as um digital boxes and letterings that I’ve
22:19
added to the illustrator to the photographs okay and when were these photos taken approximately
22:27
um between the examination period which I believe was from
22:32
February of 2021 to October of 20 21.
22:39
and you mentioned that some of the photographs have marks on them and some
22:44
appear to have writing on the bones did you place those marks on the photographs in the bones yes I did
22:51
are these images a true and accurate depiction of the bones that you analyzed they are and besides the marks that you
22:59
made on the photographs or the bones are there any material alterations or
23:05
deletions to the images no they were not your honor I would move for the
23:11
admission of state’s exhibits 180 a through l any objection from the defense
23:17
with the uh with the explanation of of the
23:22
photographs where he’s written on the actual bones and on the photographs I have no objection to their admission
23:28
okay thank you Mr Thomas so exhibits 180 a through L are all admitted
23:36
I think you’re honor may I have permission to publish those to the jury yes you may
23:46
okay
23:57
foreign
24:06
the first train I know I have a softer voice so
24:12
um I’m going to place on the Elmo is 180 a
24:21
.m maybe this would be no because we want the scale
24:29
how about that does that work that’s good okay
24:36
all right um and what bone is this
24:44
I believe that’s the hip bone or the pelvic region okay
24:50
okay can you what’s this of this bone um would it be possible for me to
24:56
clarify if you uh terms I’m going to be using repeatedly through all these these
25:02
images all right what what terms um that that you need to clarify that we haven’t
25:08
gone over uh action type uh stabbing action uh chopping and compressive Force
25:14
Okay so what’s uh compressive Force
25:20
so I think you said the first one was action type yes uh action type
25:26
uh for a stabbing action uh it could be thought of as essentially a forces being
25:33
generated uh from the tip of a tool um onto a surface so that energy will be
25:41
focused on a single point of that tool a chopping action you could think of is
25:47
essentially when that energy is being delivered from a bladed tool along the long axis
25:55
of that cutting surface a compressive Force I use
26:00
uh in my report basis to outline any kind
26:05
of damage to the bone that I was unable to determine any kind of class characteristics other than the fact that
26:11
uh some force was applied onto it okay was that all the terms that you
26:16
needed to clarify I believe so okay thank you I didn’t want to miss any
26:21
um so with regard to exhibit 180a I believe
26:27
there are four um areas that are kind of outlined on this do you have a laser pointer up
26:32
there with you yes I do would you like to use it I I would okay if you’d please
26:37
just walk us through those areas okay so um you can see the bone here
26:44
um and these are actually the outlines the digital outline that I drew
26:50
around the damage regions and then I I lettered each one of them so starting with with a uh
27:00
that I determined was a um cost from a stabbing type action
27:05
over the B here which was a chopping top action and then C and D chopping type action
27:23
now turning your attention to States exhibit 180b
27:43
if if his passport could just uh focus on the the top image I mean I for now
27:56
all right so with regard to State’s exhibit 180b this top image what does
28:02
that show this is a region a which I said was
28:08
calls from a stabbing action um you can see here I’ve I’ve actually
28:14
written on the bone a and then next year is my initials djh
28:20
the illustrations I have those there essentially to kind of outline the
28:27
damage that was occurred to the Bone
28:33
so this image is a close of as marked as tool Mark a in the previous
28:41
photo is that correct that is correct okay and uh the reason I took the close-up
28:47
image is what I was trying to do is I was trying to document the damage that occurred to the Bone
28:53
uh it’s a little difficult to see here but you could actually see some of the bone
28:59
here has begun to fracture and the force of the impact
29:05
came down at a perpendicular angle so this fracturing that’s occurring here
29:12
has been driven into the bone the bone actually has a hard layer and there’s a
29:18
hollow layer inside um so this penetrated that hard layer
29:24
into the hollow layer and actually I don’t capture it here but there was
29:29
damage that was occurred onto the other side of the bone that was uh occurred from here uh
29:35
what’s not captured on the screen is a arrow right here there’s actual radial
29:40
cracks coming out of the damaged area right here
29:46
that I was trying to actually uh document in this photograph
29:51
and what other actions did you take in reviewing or analyzing tool Mark a on
29:56
this hip bone okay so as I mentioned earlier first half my examination is focused on
30:02
those class characteristics the second half I’m wanting to actually um identify
30:08
those uh individual characteristics I was examining it looking for those
30:15
individual characteristics I was unable to locate any so that’s when I decided
30:21
to use the casting material again this that silicone based compound kind of
30:26
comes with thick liquid I applied it into the damaged area allowed it to
30:32
harden removed it I actually did this two times and uh I was unable to identify any
30:39
individual characteristics from this this damaged area
30:53
that
30:59
Sarah is there a light on here
31:07
because that images yeah I’m trying to make it lighter
31:14
that bottom image is a little dark are you able to see that I can okay and what is uh that bottom
31:22
image if you can describe it for the record is is the same image
31:28
as the one uh that was at the top however it’s just more focused all right
31:34
I’m sorry the magnification was increased uh it just illustrates uh
31:41
the fracturing that occurred and that bone being carried inside the um the
31:46
damaged area so essentially just a magnified uh version of the first photograph that you saw
31:53
thank you
32:06
now uh looking at States exhibit 180c the top picture
32:12
can you describe this for the record right the damaged areas here
32:20
again you can see the identifier I gave it B my initials and the arrow is just
32:25
kind of outlining the uh the fractures that occurred you can see some of the fracturing of the bone that’s occurring
32:32
it’s being driven downward this again came from a chopping tap action the energy
32:38
of that long axis of that blade is being driven down
32:45
this appears to come from a perpendicular angle
32:50
it didn’t drive into the all the way through the hard layer of
32:56
the bone uh but right here you can see basically
33:03
part of the bone the harder being driven inside that damaged area
33:09
I did take castings from this as well I took two cast trying to identify
33:16
individual characteristics from my examination process I was unable to identify any individual characteristics
33:22
from this injury uh did you know anything else is significant with this tool Mark
33:28
identified as B no I okay did you take any other actions in reviewing or analyzing it no I did
33:37
not okay and then
33:42
with regard to the bottom image on States exhibit 180c can you please
33:48
explain what we are seeing there essentially it’s the same image as the first one just magnified so you can
33:55
actually see the B here uh but what I was wanting to illustrate
34:01
is you could actually see again this injury did not Pierce through the
34:07
hard layer of the bone so you can actually see at the base of that that tool Mark uh residual uh
34:16
bone fragments that were carried into it because as I was trying to illustrate with that image
34:29
all right now in States exhibit 180d um there are multiple images
34:37
on this page so if we can just start at the top does
34:43
this contain close-up images of the tool marks you noted as C and D in that very first photograph they do all right and
34:50
why did you take a closer a picture of the tool marks you identified as C and D I was just trying to better capture uh
34:57
the the damage to document it in these uh these images
35:08
all right what did you know as significant with these two or more okay looking at the
35:15
top left image you again see how I label them C and D
35:21
again my initials djh the Green Arrow I use it to illustrate
35:27
that this was a chopping type action and at the force of this choppy type
35:34
action at least in this image occurred from left to right
35:40
okay um and when you talk about chopping type actions are you able to identify the
35:47
type of tools in any of these marks that we’ve looked at that leave these uh I
35:52
wasn’t able to identify it to a particular tool but there were tool
35:58
types that I was actually able to um speculate could have caused these marks
36:06
that are essentially uh chopping tap action are terms I would
36:12
use was consistent with certain types of tools and what are those tools uh in this type
36:18
of chopping top action as I have stated in my report it would be from a
36:25
a bladed tool such as a cleaver machete
36:32
and I believe a hatchet I used thank you is there anything else that you need to
36:38
note on the top two images yeah there is on the top right
36:43
again um you can kind of see my initials right here so what I did was I just focused
36:50
inward onto this um onto the the damaged area
36:57
and you can see this crack occurring right here that it’s it illustrates basically that the force
37:03
came from this side and it drove or fractured part of this bone and just
37:09
kind of driving it inside that damaged area as you may be able to see
37:16
this uh damage cut through the hard layer of the bone and it actually
37:22
transferred to the other side of the bone as well uh
37:28
the black arrows here on the right side they’re illustrating basically um
37:34
scallop shaped surfaces they were found along the tool Mark
37:41
which indicate to me that there may have been some type of serrated
37:47
teeth on the the blade to produce those those
37:52
are actually uh easier to see if we can
37:58
so see right here this cut or this chopping top action
38:08
either didn’t cut through the hard surface of that bone
38:13
but it carried a lot of material into it you see The Black Arrow actually pointing out these uh
38:20
these teeth structures kind of coming out I believe that bladed tool had some type
38:27
of serrated teeth on it kind of like salt teeth like did you see on the saw
38:32
and as it was being delivered through a chopping top action caused those to flare up
38:40
and then you can see the Green Arrow here which indicates that the force came from at least in the image from left to
38:46
right thank you
38:55
now looking at uh State’s exhibit 180e
39:01
the the top image on that what does that show
39:06
I’m sorry can I clarify one more point from the last image sure let me grab that one again
39:18
the bottom the only thing I I want to mention is when I was trying I went in
39:23
and I was looking for those individual characteristics I was unable to find them in either C or D
39:41
all right so um looking at States exhibit 180 e
39:49
um there are two images on this page the top image what is that documenting
39:55
uh this is the same bone item 16 this is just the back side of the bone
40:03
okay and why did you take um a picture of the back side of the bone with these uh marks on it uh as I
40:12
mentioned earlier uh the tool marks that I identified on the front side A and D I said some of that damage was
40:19
transferred onto the back side so region a as I mentioned earlier that
40:26
was from a stab and type action and that damage transferred through the bone so
40:31
that damage actually carried through the hard two hard layers and didn’t
40:37
necessarily come out of the bone but fractured it so that that tool partially
40:43
pushed that or ejected that material onto the outside of the bone here
40:48
if I can just interrupt what are you able to say what type of tool would make that stab Mark in identified in Mark a
40:57
I believe it was some type of a bladed tool so um like like a knife
41:03
however I couldn’t preclude a other tools that might have some type of
41:09
a pointed Edge because you can imagine uh even a a Cleaver if it’s delivered on
41:17
not the long axis of Blade but one of the corners may have been able to produce this but this is consistent uh
41:24
with a isolated tool such as a knife and what else did you notice significant
41:29
on this bone um that D here that was that chopping type action that
41:36
I talked about earlier on the front side I told you some of that damage was transferred onto the back and you
41:43
can actually see how it pierced through both uh
41:50
the hard layer of the bone on the other side travel through that Hollow part of the inside and then parse it out on the
41:57
on the outside and then up e was another tool mark that I
42:04
identified it is consistent with a chopping top action and it did appear to have a
42:13
serrated or was produced from a blade had serrated tool marks and the force of the blow
42:19
as it Illustrated here with a screen Arrow travel from uh left to right
42:25
all right and the um bottom well I don’t want to change that
42:31
because the Green Arrow um the bottom image on States exhibit 180e
42:39
what is that what is that of this is a close-up of e right here
42:46
and you can see I actually wrote e in my initials
42:52
the Green Arrow illustrates the direction of the action that occurred and then right here the black arrows are
42:58
just illustrating it you can see these teeth like structures that are kind of coming out of the bone again
43:05
for most consistently produced with a bladed type of tool that has serrated
43:10
teeth um like any other actions of reviewing the
43:17
tool marks a d or e um yes I did I just made observations to identify any
43:24
individual characteristics if they existed within those tool marks I was unable to identify any of those
43:30
individual characteristics
43:38
looking at States exhibit 180 f
43:49
um what portion of the bone does this depict
43:55
that is an intact portion of the spine
44:01
and why did you take a picture of the mark labeled as I believe it’s labeled
44:06
as a in exhibit 180f okay so this is a
44:14
item 17. so what I did was I just started over the count so this is a for
44:23
item 17. uh the mark the tool Mark here is produced
44:28
from a chopping type action as the Green Arrow indicates the forces below as far as this illustration is
44:36
concerned came from the bottom up
44:43
um what did you notice significant with this tool mark uh it didn’t travel through the hard
44:50
layer of that bone it’s difficult to see in the image but
44:57
this is not a flat surface this portion of the bone right here
45:03
sorry yeah it’s kind of coming out so
45:08
this portion here is much higher in elevation than this tool mark
45:15
all right and what other adding tool Mark a on this portion of
45:21
the spine just that I was uh trying to identify any individual characteristics within that uh that tool Mark and I was
45:28
unable to find any okay and with regard to the bottom image on
45:34
States exhibit 180f what is that it’s just the same image just magnify
45:42
and it just illustrates uh are you better see that how the the tool mark
45:49
or the tool used didn’t Pierce that hard layer
45:54
and that you can actually see um fractures or pieces of the bone that
45:59
were actually carried into it
46:08
but 180g
46:20
what item was this identified as by your lab this was uh labeled as item 19. okay and
46:30
what portion of the bone does this depict uh is the other half of the hip or pelvic region
46:35
so this is a different portion of the hip bone or pelvic region than was identified in item 16 correct that is
46:42
correct and can you walk us through your analysis of this bone with the marked areas okay okay would it be some if we could
46:49
actually uh bring down some of that brightness
46:55
oh does that help yes that’s that’s perfect uh
47:02
so I’ll start from the left side here uh d
47:09
is a was created from a chopping type action um
47:14
that damage uh from the blow actually pierced that hard layer of the bone
47:21
next to it is e F here which is kind of difficult to see
47:26
you can see it but what I’m trying to outline here and you can actually see it there’s a
47:33
well before I go into that one of the things I wanted to also show you was there was a
47:38
what I I believe were suit marks along here so part of the bone was uh damaged
47:45
I believe due to fire right here F you can kind of see these
47:51
fracturing kind of coming around here this little region right there I was unable to find any tool marks but
47:59
it did appear that some type of force was applied to it which I used as compressive Force
48:05
forced down on here perpendicular kind of driving this fragment downward
48:11
but it was still attached to the Bone over here on the right G you can kind of
48:18
see this outline here I was unable to identify any um
48:26
types of class characteristics from it other than the fact that some type of force was applied onto it and
48:34
it just drove in there and an H right here
48:39
um hit it and this all these G
48:46
D and E if I didn’t mentioned from a chopping type action I’m sorry G was
48:51
compressive Force do you need chopping top action
48:57
H that was a from a stabbing type action you can
49:03
it’s difficult to see but you see this little channel here
49:08
it appears that something was uh driven into that inning
49:14
caused a channel to occur within that hard surface of the bone
49:20
and with regard to the compression action are you able to tell what type of tool was used no that was not and with
49:29
the other I think you said um chopping type actions are you able to identify what type of tool was used not
49:36
not identify but too much they’re consistent with would it be possible for me to save that when do the close-up
49:43
images I think it’d be easier to illustrate absolutely together
49:49
States exhibit 188 [Applause]
50:00
there are three images on this page
50:06
do you recognize those yes I do and um with regard to the top photograph
50:14
can you just explain that for the record you can see the digital box I drew
50:20
around the toolmark it kind of looks like a a tooth Mark or a kind of like a shark’s
50:28
tooth standing up here the Green Arrow is based on the top of it here’s the
50:33
base um right here I actually wrote on the bone
50:38
a in my initials uh was was hard to see in this image is uh
50:44
there’s there’s more elevation right here so this occurred from a chopping type
50:52
action as the Green Arrow indicates it came from the top down but since this bone
50:59
was protruding out had higher elevation that chopping tap action
51:04
did not cut into the hard layer of that bone
51:11
and also I reviewed it for individual characteristics and and found none
51:16
a believer tools consistent with potentially making this kind of marks would be from a
51:22
blade tool such as a Cleaver uh machete Hatchet or similar type tools
51:30
did you note anything else is significant with regard to these tool marks on this top photograph uh
51:38
for uh B and C I wasn’t able to identify any
51:45
class characteristics and I just referred to him as as fractures you can see that the bone some
51:52
type of force was occurred onto it and it actually fractured that bone
51:57
here as well it may have occurred from the same
52:04
impact but I wasn’t able to determine that and I was unable to terminate kind of
52:11
tools that were consistent with making those that type of damage thank you with
52:16
regard to the bottom images um what why did you take a closer
52:22
picture of those now those are just a zoomed in images of
52:28
um B and C just to better illustrate the the fracturing that occurred to the Bone
52:33
so you can actually see how the uh the bone is cracking and fracturing and you
52:39
got bone that’s spurring out from that pelvic bone what other actions if any did you take
52:46
in reviewing or analyzing these tool marks identified on this bone
52:51
other than just trying to identify any of those individual characteristics which I was unable to locate any okay
53:03
and then turning to States exhibit I
53:14
um what does that top photo depict
53:21
okay so you can see part of my initials here but just to make sure that they
53:26
were I actually wrote on my notes so that is B my initials scribbled and then
53:34
the date but what this image illustrates here is it’s a close-up of
53:39
damage to region d as I indicated earlier is from a
53:44
chopping top action uh the force of the action occurred at
53:49
least in the image from left to right kind of coming upward um what this illustration is you can see
53:55
the fracturing that’s occurring from the bone right here were basically the force of the blow carried over this portion
54:03
and underneath this side cleaved through the hard layer of that
54:09
bone notice it
54:16
did or take any other or analyzing this tool Mark noted as D
54:21
on this portion of the bone I also was looking for the individual characteristics which I was unable to
54:26
find any okay
54:36
and on the bottom photograph can you describe that for the record
54:42
so this is a D in his entirety and next to it is e
54:50
here is f as you as you recall that’s that’s the one I said I couldn’t find any class
54:56
characteristics though some type of force compressive force was administered
55:02
on it at this point which kind of caused it to fracture along this area here
55:08
but what I want you to focus on is um e sorry
55:17
e right here it’s the same kind of action coming from left
55:25
to right I chop and type action however there were uh
55:30
would appear to be a teeth like protrusions coming out of it they’re
55:35
consistent with a chopping top action from a tool with serrated teeth uh
55:41
this one did not Pierce through the hard layer of the bone
55:48
you take any find anything else of no no analyzing the tool marks identified
55:54
as d e and f in this photograph the only other actions I took was just
56:00
try to identify individual characteristics was unable to locate any thank you
56:10
States exhibit 180j
56:25
and can you walk me through the marks that you have on this larger picture first yes
56:33
so this is a g and you can see right here
56:38
I’ve written on the bone G my initials you could kind of see the outline of the impressed mark
56:48
as I mentioned earlier I was unable to associate any class characters characteristics with it other than some
56:55
type of compressive force was applied to it to cause this this impression to occur
57:01
up here at the top H this came from a stabbing type action
57:06
this was the one from the first illustration I talked about that a little Channel had been
57:13
formed underneath the hard layer of the bone you could actually see this is the um
57:18
the orifice of it it is pretty small I actually hand wrote on it it’s
57:24
approximately 0.058 of an inch in diameter so pretty
57:31
small um do you find noteworthy regarding the
57:37
tool marks observed on this portion of the hip bone uh I attempted to take a cast so this
57:43
was my final cast of the casting material I applied it hoping to capture some kind of class maybe even individual
57:50
characteristics I was unable to do that uh can I speak to the other images on
57:56
the right yes that’s
58:03
photograph what is this closer image of so that is just a closer image of H
58:10
right here I just kind of zoomed into it just so you can kind of see here’s the orifice the Green Arrow indicates the
58:17
force the blow occurred here and you can see behind it some of that channel that
58:22
occurred from underneath that horde hard portion of the bone and again my initials
58:31
did you take any other actions or find anything else significant with regard to this puncture type mark on the bone I
58:38
did not regarding the lower image why did you take a closer image of the tool Mark
58:45
identified I think is G in that portion of the hip bone um I just wanted to illustrate it it was
58:52
all the images I took up until that time you it was very difficult to see it in image
58:58
so all I did here was I was just casting different lights and so it just kind of cast its shadow so you’re kind of able
59:04
to better see that outline of that damage region so that was my motivation behind
59:11
actually trying to take that image or taking that image thank you did you take any other actions or find anything else
59:18
worth mentioning and analyzing these tool marks no I did not
59:28
State’s exhibit 180k
59:46
um this appears to be an overview an overview of all three bones that you analyzed is that right
59:53
that is correct and what’s significant in this image
59:59
um this is the only image or one of two images I have for my notes that
1:00:04
illustrate all the bones in an illustration so it basically provides you the totality of
1:00:12
the tool marks that were imparted onto these these bones on the left side you
1:00:18
can see right here I wrote item 19 so this whole bone here item 19. item 17 is the
1:00:25
portion of the spine item 16 is this portion right here and all I did was I just illustrate it in it
1:00:33
all the different locations so Mark A B A and then of course along here
1:00:42
and can you point out any of the images that you were able to identify either class or individual characteristics for
1:00:48
the tool marks Okay so for any kind of chopping type action uh
1:00:55
I didn’t identify any tools but I determined tools that are consistent in
1:01:00
class characteristics as causing uh in this case a chopping type action
1:01:06
um that would be a here chopping type action a on item 17 chopping action
1:01:17
D and C chopping type action as well as B
1:01:23
on item 16. item 16 a would be from a
1:01:28
stabbing type action okay
1:01:36
and then the last image States exhibit 180l
1:01:54
this is the back side or post posterior of the bones that were pictured in this last image is that correct that is
1:02:01
correct okay and what did you find noteworthy with regard to the bones in
1:02:07
this picture again just trying to illustrate to totality of those energy tool marks uh
1:02:15
this boat here is item 16 d and a those are just
1:02:21
injuries that are that are transferred from the front side to the back side so
1:02:27
you can actually see the part of the bone was being almost ejected from the backside
1:02:34
same with d recall a here was a stabbing action D chopping
1:02:41
e here was that chopping top action with a serrated uh Toolmart
1:02:51
and then item 17 you can’t see the injury from the backside item 19.
1:02:58
f that fractured part so again you kind of see the the outline of the fracture
1:03:04
e and D it’s from a chopping type action G was as that compressive Force the one
1:03:13
where I was unable to identify any kind of class characteristics the one I just took the cast of
1:03:18
and then B and C where those those fracture type marks which again I wasn’t able to associate with any kind of class
1:03:25
characteristics thank you can you summarize your findings or give us a nutshell of your
1:03:31
findings with regard to the tool Mark analysis you performed on these three bones okay
1:03:36
um so as I mentioned earlier in the examination process goes from class characteristics
1:03:42
generating um different types of source populations
1:03:48
for the examination portion so moving into that identification I was never actually able to go there and order the
1:03:55
they go to that second that microscopic examination would require me to have
1:04:00
individual characteristics so I never really got there so the only thing I was allowed to do or able to do were those
1:04:08
class characteristics was basically just outline tools that could have produced those
1:04:14
toolmarts consistent with uh
1:04:20
could we go back to the the slide prior
1:04:31
okay
1:04:40
so item 16. a that came from a stabbing type action
1:04:47
from a bladed tool such as a knife along the tip however
1:04:53
I wasn’t be able I wasn’t able to uh preclude some type of a other bladed
1:05:00
tool where a portion of um
1:05:05
a corner of that tool like a cleaver may have been used but again
1:05:10
from a stabbing type action most consistent with a bladed tool with a tip on it
1:05:18
B e and C on item 16.
1:05:23
uh came from a chopping type action uh tools consisting with a chopping top
1:05:29
action consistent with these class characteristics would be a cleaver
1:05:36
machete or a hatchet recall some of them actually had what appeared to be serrated teeth marks are consistent with
1:05:43
being created from serrated teeth marks so some of those chopping type tools may have had a
1:05:50
serrated type teeth marks on them a
1:05:55
chopping type action oh sorry a with item 17 the portion is fine
1:06:00
chopping type action consistent with tools such as Cleaver machete Hatchet
1:06:07
a on item 19. same type of chopping type tools clearer
1:06:15
Hatchet shade and then uh
1:06:23
B right here I believe was from the fracturing so no no
1:06:29
determination can be made no class characteristics were collected from that and Mr halopaska you were not provided
1:06:35
any two Tools in an effort to match the marks to a specific knife or Hatchet or Cleaver is that correct that’s correct
1:06:41
no tools were administered in this case only the bones and could I uh
1:06:47
sorry see the other other half and I’ll kind of go through the posterior or the back side yes ma’am
1:06:54
okay again summarize your findings for
1:06:59
East Side please okay again this is just damage from a transferred from that stabbing D from The Chopping e right
1:07:07
here with somebody chopping top action had this serrated teeth marks again Cleaver machete Hatchet
1:07:13
are similar type bladed tools item 19 I wasn’t able to make any
1:07:20
determinations for f G and then B and C no class
1:07:28
characteristics uh grave I was able to obtain from those examinations
1:07:34
e and D chopping type action consistent with bladed tools such as Cleaver machete
1:07:42
Hatchet and I believe one of those had perhaps uh serrated teeth marks in it as
1:07:47
well all right your honor may I have just one moment yes
1:08:00
yes I don’t have any other questions your honor all right thank you Miss Rawlings it will conduct across that you
1:08:06
Mr honor
1:08:27
could I have uh exhibit 180 to pack it
1:08:33
yes
1:08:56
good morning Mr halpaska how are you doing good yourself good uh you work for the FBI are you an FBI agent or analyst
1:09:03
or what what do you call yourself um I’m not an agent I’m a physical
1:09:09
scientist forensic examiner okay and as far as your
1:09:14
uh educational background are you a doctor are you a master’s level or
1:09:19
bachelor’s level I have a bachelor’s of science which I receive from Texas A M University in 2001 I’m currently
1:09:27
attending the um National Intelligence University at Bethesda Maryland where I’m pursuing a
1:09:33
master’s degree in science and technology and intelligence okay National Intelligence
1:09:39
University that’s correct is that a private university or is that
1:09:45
run by the FBI or is that I guess I’m just not familiar with it can you tell me a little bit about that
1:09:50
it’s a it’s a federal level uh University
1:09:57
it’s a I believe very recently it was run by the
1:10:03
Department of Defense okay
1:10:10
and can anybody take classes there is it or is it specifically for government agencies uh you have to have a top
1:10:18
secret clearance okay so it’s not not for everybody yes mostly just for
1:10:23
federal employees but there are there are contractors that work there as well okay all right
1:10:30
um and what are you studying at the National Intelligence University what kind of what kind of things do you study
1:10:37
there mostly tool marks or no no forensics it’s just focused on um uh Science and Technology basically uh
1:10:44
emerging Technologies uh just studying that just to be aware of
1:10:49
any kind of disruptive technologies that may be coming up that the forensic Community might have to actually deal
1:10:56
with the not too distant future so computer type stuff or digital type
1:11:01
stuff rather than than Hands-On bones and whatnot and nothing
1:11:08
concern with bones mostly things like added manufacturing which is just
1:11:14
a different name for 3D printing oh okay all right Mr Thomas I apologize for the
1:11:20
interruption there’s been a request that we take the morning recess this time
1:11:25
go ahead and do that we’ll be on a recess here for 20 minutes and then you
1:11:31
can continue with your cross thank you thank you
1:11:47
thank you all right we can have the jurors brought in
1:12:59
[Applause]
1:13:06
foreign
1:14:28
foreign
1:14:39
thank you Mr Bayla please be seated
1:14:57
all right we’re going back on the record kcr 22 21 1624 State versus Lori Noreen
1:15:03
vallo Mr Thomas you can continue with your cross-examination at this time
1:15:09
thank you honor I believe that left off talking about your uh
1:15:16
uh education and where you’re working at the uh or going to a master’s program at
1:15:22
the National Intelligence University um did you do anything between 2001 and
1:15:28
when you started the when when did you start the National Intelligence University
1:15:33
that would be August of uh 2022. okay so last year yes sir any
1:15:40
education between 2001 when you graduated from Texas A M in in 2022
1:15:46
other than continuing education uh with the lab uh no no other formal education
1:15:52
okay and when you got out of college in 2001 uh was the FBI your first job
1:15:59
no sir it was not okay what was your first job out of college my first job
1:16:06
was at the Texas A M University and the biochemistry physics department
1:16:12
but unfortunately a few months after that um I was reactivated into the
1:16:17
United States Marine Corps after 9 11. okay wow thank you for your service
1:16:23
um what did you do how long were you in the Marine Corps um a little I guess after I’m sorry I
1:16:30
don’t mean to stop but after 2001 when you got out you were reactivated let’s
1:16:36
talk a little bit about the react how long how long were you in the Marine Corps uh active service about one year
1:16:42
and in a reserve I think for another another year okay and so then what did
1:16:48
you do after that after I completed my service I went back to Texas A M continued working at the
1:16:55
University uh I believe a year then I actually got a job working with
1:17:04
the Drug Enforcement Administration in Miami Florida as a forensic chemist okay
1:17:11
and that was probably in 2004 2005. I worked there for three years so I
1:17:19
believe yet from 2004 to 2007. okay and then what
1:17:25
did you do when you got out of the DEA I took a job working for the Army at the
1:17:31
testing Proving Ground in dugway which is located in Utah I worked there
1:17:36
as a field chemist during chem Warfare chemistry okay that’s in Tooele Utah yes
1:17:44
sir it is okay and how long were you there I worked there for a little over two years okay
1:17:51
and so that would have been 2009-ish when you left that yes sir and
1:17:56
then where’d you go uh that’s when I was uh offered an opportunity to uh
1:18:01
uh join the FBI okay and you’ve been at the FBI ever since yes sir okay
1:18:08
uh and so you indicated on Direct exam that you did training for about two and
1:18:14
a half years is that right that is correct and was that training specifically on the tool Mark uh portion
1:18:21
of of your FBI work yeah yes um it was part of it is with
1:18:31
the Firearms aspect but you think of a firearm as really nothing more than a
1:18:36
collection of tools in order for it to operate so yes the entire time I was I
1:18:41
was working on toolmarks okay
1:18:49
you said you were directly supervised by a two Mark examiner is that right yes
1:18:55
sir they’re um I guess to expand on that there was actually a a training coordinator was responsible for the
1:19:01
entire program but you’re actually a heavy trainee has a a mentor
1:19:08
and they just kind of guide you through the process okay and your Mentor was with you the whole
1:19:14
two and a half years he was a during the entire two half years yes he
1:19:20
was training me okay um and so how many other times have you
1:19:27
worked uh since 2009 2010 area the last
1:19:32
probably 14 15 years on Bones with
1:19:40
um knives or machetes or those the types of implements that were used in this particular case
1:19:46
those are in frequent examinations they don’t occur that often okay and over the
1:19:51
course of your career with the FBI how many times do you think less than 10
1:19:56
I would say maybe about five or six times five or six times okay
1:20:03
and does the FBI have a I don’t know I guess I guess what I’m
1:20:09
thinking is that when somebody brings something in you have a vast array of
1:20:16
tools you can choose from to try to match up what what that what what caused
1:20:21
an injury is that correct or am I kind of thinking in Fantasyland no you you’re correct they’re um there are different
1:20:28
uh reference collections so if this um case involved Firearms there’s a large
1:20:33
reference collection that I could use as tools we have a large tool room that has
1:20:39
different reference tools that that are available to us you’re correct okay and
1:20:45
so in this particular case when the bones came in and you were given the task of identifying the tool marks Did
1:20:52
you go into that vast collection of or different collections of of tools to see what may have caused these particular
1:21:00
traumas or injuries or marks that that’s correct I did
1:21:07
uh the thing about doing the tool Marts is not just the
1:21:13
tools that you’re using but the the the surface or media you’re testing on so
1:21:18
that is correct okay and so when you’re testing on this type of media
1:21:23
you have to know uh some background like how many foot pounds of of pressure it
1:21:30
would take to cause this particular injury right no you don’t have to actually go that
1:21:36
that far the efforts are using the the tools available the
1:21:43
reference tools and uh different media sources to try to replicate those marks
1:21:48
so um in situation like that I’m just taking a tool and I’m trying to replicate uh
1:21:55
whatever type of toolmark that was created using those reference tools as
1:22:00
well as the the media which I’m testing it on and so what type of reference tools did you use on this particular
1:22:06
case I used a collection of different types of bladed
1:22:12
knives hatchets a couple of machetes
1:22:19
it was just a lot of different tools that I used and so that’s where you came to the
1:22:26
conclusion that this was either made by a machete a hatchet or a knife
1:22:31
I didn’t in the report I specified they were consistent with so the injuries or them
1:22:40
sorry the tool marks that I saw the types of tool marks were consistent
1:22:47
with those types of tools I do I do want to specify too that um aside from
1:22:53
generating a report and testifying that report it’s also used as a as a a lead source for law enforcement
1:23:01
so um it allows them to actually kind of read over those tools and then in their
1:23:08
investigation try to locate any tools that are similar to those which could be
1:23:13
submitted or resubmitted to the laboratory for testing and so in this particular case there was testimony that
1:23:20
some tools were seized by the FBI by your agency and then
1:23:26
um you you indicated on direct examination that none of those tools were actually used in trying to figure
1:23:33
out what caused these particular injuries is that correct your honor I’m going to object council is testifying to
1:23:39
facts not in evidence and looking for information
1:23:45
I think there’s not an adequate foundation for for this witness to answer I’ll overrule that objection at
1:23:51
this time so so there were tools that were seized if I could just repeat the question is that okay yes yes so there
1:23:57
were tools that were seized by the FBI and your agency and you testified that
1:24:04
no tools came to you from any other agency or your own agency to test with
1:24:09
this particular these particular bones is that right there were no tools uh submitted so the
1:24:18
only evidence that was submitted to me were the bones uh no tools were actually submitted to the laboratory okay I
1:24:24
wasn’t aware of any tools okay and did you ask anybody if there were any tools
1:24:30
that were seized uh no I did not okay is there any reason why you didn’t do
1:24:36
that no um since once the report is issued
1:24:43
essentially uh that that case is kind of closed out and for the laboratory at
1:24:48
least for my unit you’re just moving on to the the next uh examinations and uh
1:24:55
generating those reports as well so I I did not follow up on uh this case other than the fact that
1:25:03
uh once that Rapport was issued to the field
1:25:08
who issued the report oh I issued the report okay but before you issued the report
1:25:16
uh you didn’t go back and say hey in order for me to complete my report I
1:25:21
would like to see some sort of did you gather anything you didn’t ask any of those questions
1:25:27
no I did not okay and you know you said there’s no particular reason why you didn’t
1:25:32
I wasn’t aware that there was any tools in the case I assumed if there were tools in the case they would have been
1:25:38
submitted to the laboratory okay so it was somewhere down the chain that may have screwed up and not submitting them
1:25:44
to you yeah there were no tools submitted to me I don’t know how that process works okay
1:25:51
and do you think that would have been more helpful to find out maybe if these
1:25:56
tools were the ones that made these marks it would have been helpful to have tools to analyze in the case that is correct
1:26:02
okay when these uh the this these specific
1:26:10
specimens came in and I called them specimens because my question is was
1:26:16
there any flesh before you got the bones on these specimens
1:26:22
they were not they were it was pretty much just the bow material there was
1:26:27
some dry tissue but not much okay so did you in your analysis did you assume that
1:26:35
whatever cut through to the Bone would
1:26:40
have gone through skin tissue muscle those kinds of things prior to hitting
1:26:46
the bone I I was aware of that that fact and is that the Assumption you made in making a
1:26:51
report no um my analyst was just focused on those tool marks on the bone
1:26:57
um essentially all I’m doing is looking at those tool marks and trying to determine
1:27:03
those class characteristics okay
1:27:09
as far as the class characteristics you’re basically saying what type of implement it you was used
1:27:17
to make these particular marks yes that’s correct um
1:27:22
the tool marks they were made or uh the two marks that are imparted
1:27:27
onto the uh the bones through my training experience
1:27:32
um I was trying to like generate those class characteristics and
1:27:37
then go into the examination process but um
1:27:42
I was not uh able to make any direct determination other than just tools that
1:27:49
are consistent with producing those types of marks you indicated that there was possibly some serrated type of a
1:27:55
tool right that is correct did you come to a conclusion that was a serrated tool or just that it was consistent with a
1:28:02
curated tool that the tool marks had uh consistent marks
1:28:07
um or sorry that the tool marks had marks that were consistent with being
1:28:12
produced from a serrated tool okay and with that particular with that particular injury with the serrated tool
1:28:20
um how far apart were these were these uh serrated tool marks uh I did not measure those
1:28:27
okay essentially they were when they were produced they were adjacent to each other
1:28:33
okay is there any reason why you didn’t uh why you didn’t measure the
1:28:40
width of the teeth on that serrated during an analysis it wasn’t uh
1:28:46
essential had there been a tool that came with the case or was submitted with
1:28:52
the bones then yes those measurements would have been appropriate okay
1:28:58
one of the things that you indicated in defining the class characteristics you
1:29:05
kind of went through the different things and then you said something about microscopic characteristics
1:29:10
you recall that yes different types of uh tools yes
1:29:16
okay and so did you uh put these bones under the microscope and look at the at
1:29:22
the tool marks under the microscope I was unable to locate any of those uh
1:29:28
individual characteristics so I was never actually able to move on to the uh microscopy part of the examinations
1:29:55
so is it is it true that you don’t know what caused these marks
1:30:01
you just know that it was something uh that’s correct uh
1:30:07
all I know is the marks regenerate by some tool that’s consistent in making
1:30:13
those marks but no I don’t know exactly what tool was used okay anyone able to
1:30:19
differentiate whether it was a man or a woman who may have done this oh no I would that’s not something I could
1:30:25
determine from examining the tool marks okay in examining the two marks were able to identify how much force would
1:30:32
have been applied no I did not that’s not something that could be determined from the the tool
1:30:37
marks okay is there someone in your department that
1:30:42
you know of at the FBI who could determine how much force would have been applied and that may have been something
1:30:48
that to pass this particular piece of evidence onto that’s not an examination
1:30:55
that the laboratory conducts at least not in the farms and toolmarks unit okay
1:31:07
are you part of the I I let me just let me put it this way uh is there any
1:31:14
interdepartmental discussions as to um where to go from when you’re done
1:31:21
with yours uh to to what we should do next type thing
1:31:27
all right that’s left essentially up to the case agent so the case agent uh for the case
1:31:35
essentially the laboratory the forensic examinations that’s just kind of one
1:31:40
part of the uh the investigative package okay so and I don’t mean to over
1:31:47
generalize the FBI or or your particular lab but I’m and tell me if this analogy
1:31:54
works for you I’m kind of uh making the comparison of me walking into
1:32:02
the Home Depot and saying hey I need a nut that is you know three quarters of
1:32:08
an inch in diameter and I go ask the guy and he he gives me that and your lab is
1:32:14
that specialized where you are basically you ask me to do something and I do it
1:32:19
and I don’t give you any other further information is that is that
1:32:24
where we’re at not the laboratory is is fortunate that
1:32:30
there are a lot of disciplines that exist within within the laboratory that are
1:32:36
that are a rare rare in state and local Laboratories I believe the laboratory of the FBI
1:32:43
laboratory uh makes a lot of effort to try to answer as many questions as possible but you are limited to the
1:32:51
evidence itself essentially for for myself in the examination those tool marks
1:32:58
the examination cannot really go much beyond the tool marks themselves
1:33:04
so I’m not thinking about or analyzing the amount of tissue
1:33:11
between the tool and the surface of the bone I’m just focused on the tool marks on the
1:33:17
bone [Music]
1:33:58
the difference between the stabbing tool marks and The Chopping tool marks
1:34:05
can you because that’s basically what we have here we don’t have anything else other than stabbing and chopping correct
1:34:11
that is correct all right it looks like you identified one stabbing tool Mark
1:34:17
and the rest were chopping type tool marks right I was able to determine that those um
1:34:24
two marks were consistent with um because identification is a a whole
1:34:30
different Source identification basically is when I’m identifying a tool
1:34:35
back to a tool Mark no identifications were made in this case so yes
1:34:42
from the examinations to which occurred from a stabbing and the majority of the
1:34:47
rest occurred from a chopping action okay so The Chopping and the stabbing I’m I’m
1:34:54
a little confused with what’s which is which so the stabbing would be something
1:35:00
with a finite uh width and length or at
1:35:06
least with is that right yeah so the the energy that’s being uh
1:35:12
transferred from the tool to the surface is a is focused on a a very narrow area
1:35:19
or a chopping type action uh still forces being applied but that
1:35:26
force is being focused over a I think I used the term a long axis of
1:35:32
the cutting blade is that does that answer your question sir
1:35:38
um yeah I think so I think so um and so would these injuries be consistent with
1:35:45
um someone who was sophisticated or unsophisticated Dino oh I I couldn’t
1:35:51
answer that question
1:35:59
I don’t have any further questions all right thank you Mr Thomas
1:36:07
redirect Miss Rawlings
1:36:19
Mr halopaska um two things I think you were asked um
1:36:24
whether I think if the phrase was something caused these marks but you’ve identified
1:36:31
certain class characteristics is that right yes I made determinations on the type of class characteristics that could
1:36:37
cause uh those uh those tool marks those injuries and what were those again
1:36:44
um you’re talking about the the tools or the the types of uh so for the stabbing
1:36:49
type action would be a a bladed tool Like a Knife The Chopping tap actions
1:36:55
and these are again consistent with um ablated type tools such as a Cleaver
1:37:01
machete and a hatchet and in some of those class
1:37:07
characteristics did have serrated or appeared to have serrated teeth on them
1:37:15
we talked about chopping I think previously talked about compression actions are those are those
1:37:21
related to chopping actions um they could be it’s just that uh
1:37:27
I wasn’t able to Garner any class characteristics so in the situations
1:37:33
when I use the term compressive Force I knew that some kind of force was applied to those bones but there were no class
1:37:40
characteristics for me to kind of Source populated uh like when I talked
1:37:47
about the uh the screwdrivers the the flat head and the and the Phillips I
1:37:52
wasn’t able to differentiate with those two um uh
1:37:58
toolmarts or injured areas they had those um compressive forces apply to them and
1:38:04
based on the tool marks in this case on the bones if you had been provided specific tools would you have been able
1:38:11
to utilize them in identifying the marks I would have been able to make uh test
1:38:16
marks with them but as you recall throughout the examination process I wasn’t
1:38:21
um able to locate any individual characteristics so I would have been
1:38:27
able just to make the same um General uh
1:38:32
characteristics aren’t basically just I wouldn’t be able to I Source identify the tools back to the
1:38:39
bones because the bones didn’t have those individual characteristics that would have allowed me to uh
1:38:46
in order to make those source determinations I don’t have anything further your honor
1:38:51
thank you all right thank you Miss Rawlings that will conclude the testimony of this
1:38:56
witness then thank you for your appearance is the witness excuse to release from any subpoena yes he is your
1:39:03
honor
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